The Suite Spot Series Dax Grant

John Jeffcock (JJ) Welcome to the Winmark Suite Spot interview series, where we explore how to reach, lead and deliver a C-Suite role today. Today I’m joined by Dax Grant, who’s got a fantastic CV – I would say you were a technologist turned executive director, is that about right?

Dax Grant (DG) Spot on John, yes.

JJ You studied at Cambridge and Harvard, got an MBA from Cranfield and you’ve worked for pretty much every bank out there – Barclays, Santander, Visa, HSBC. But you’ve also done some charitable work haven’t you, with Macmillan and others?

DG Absolutely. I do like to keep the balance between the commercial and the not-for-profit, value-based world.

JJ So really quite an interesting and universal background. You’re also a woman in a tech area and I was looking at some data recently that only 14% of CIOs or CTOs are women. So, in a way you’re in a minority group within a broader group. I guess fighting your way through, being a pioneer in that space, must have been quite challenging?

DG It’s interesting, John, in terms of there are always direct conversations in terms of your next position and there’s a lot of influencing. I think it varies in the C-Suite as well as anywhere else. So hopefully it’s a real opportunity to set the precedent for even more, not only women, but anyone from a minority background to step into their next position, whether that be in the C-Suite or somewhere else.

JJ So let’s go back to when you were a child. When you were small, what did you want to be?

DG To be honest, I didn’t have a position that I wanted to be. I had a vision and a mission statement that they got me to write down when I was in the sixth form. There were three parts to it. The first part was about families, so creating my own family, that was very important to me, and the other two parts were really around having an impact in society and having an impact in the financial world as well. So, I feel I’m now partly through that journey, but maybe I didn’t realize quite the significance when I was writing the statements with my sixth form colleagues.

JJ And when you left Cambridge, what did you want to do after that? How did your ideas develop?

DG I was very conscious that I needed to learn about customers and about how businesses worked. My decision about my degree was to do Economics. It was either going to be Economics or Engineering, but I knew that I needed to learn my trade from the ground up. And so, I went to join Barclays and I looked after a branch, and I looked after a corporate lending portfolio. But I was also very interested in technology, and I was very fortunate that IBM gave me an open contract whilst I was at university, so I was very respectful that I needed to understand the customer view first, but also really interested in what this tech interest would mean in my life. And so, I explored both in parallel.

JJ And if you had to summarise your career in one minute, what would you say?

DG I guess it’s a combination of having a bold mission and vision in terms of where you see yourself. And I believe that in terms of life rather than career alone because I think it’s important to keep that life perspective. I believe in taking the opportunities that present themselves and evaluating those in terms of where you would like to contribute next, and that’s what that’s what I did in terms of each step that I took. Some of the most interesting assignments that I’ve looked after included working in MacMillan Cancer Support and then going back into financial services, and I learned a huge amount from that. But would I have predicted that at 15? 16? 18? Not necessarily – but I had the vision at that stage.

JJ And do you think there were moments in your career where there were key decisions you made or key moments that made you quite so successful?

DG I guess success is always defined in your own view of what success is. There were key moments I would say that arose from my unconscious self rather than being necessarily something I’d plan towards. So, for example, I’d always wanted to have my own children, but I always wanted to progress my leadership and international global career as well. And I’ve had a vision that I wanted to complete an MBA, and all these things happened at once.

So, I had my daughter. I then got the opportunity to progress with the MBA at Cranfield and take on a new opportunity. So, it was a bit of a defining moment in that I could have deferred maybe two out of three of those. Clearly, I had my daughter, but the others were optional but for me it made it very pertinent in terms of my own values and really understanding myself. So, that was a particular defining moment and I guess as they say, you define the moment, or the moment defines you. So, for me, I took all three on.

JJ And did you do a part time or full time MBA?

DG I insisted on part time, and that was partly because I love studying. I’ve got three degrees in the end, but I like to balance that with practical experience and continuing with the next executive position enabled me to do that. But also taking on a part time MBA introduces you to quite a global audience. When I was completing my MBA we worked in virtual teams, so we would dial into calls internationally and have to deal with all those things that I later dealt with in Visa and HSBC. That global international experience, and really understanding where we are societally, was part of that whole decision-making process.

JJ I did a full time MBA and I and I remember admiring the people who were doing it part time because all your spare time is killed. But to do that and bring up a small child is an extraordinary workload on you personally.

DG Don’t underestimate that, I would agree. I took it on, but I would only do that with the support of the people around me. Unequivocally, they gave me the support, but you had to learn about what you’ve taken on and something had to give. That two-year period was an intense but very self-developmental period. The thing I had to give up was time with my friends that I’d had outside of the MBA. Luckily, I developed friends on the MBA and through the new position that I worked on, but I had to really focus on the family and my daughter and the immediate commitments that I’d created. Coming out of that, I wanted to reignite those conversations with my friendships from the past. and that created a whole new set of conversations as well.

So, did I realize that when I took the MBA on, I certainly didn’t. Did it teach me a lot about myself and the call you have to make on certain things, it surely did. And did that set me up for executive decision making? Absolutely, but I didn’t know that at the time.

JJ And through your career have you had some forms of mentor or guide that’s helped you or guided you at certain times?

DG I know the latest thought leadership is always having advisors and I’ve always had advisors whether they have been formal or probably more informal to be honest and I guess as a leader you’ll talk to and listen to the different voices in my life. And so, my advisors and guides vary from some of the most senior folks that you would recognize as CEOs of major organizations through to some of my most pertinent conversations that happened with my daughter or my son, where they’ve suggested something. I’ve said, I share your view – it really counts and what you’re saying is spot on.

I guess what I would say is maybe counter to the usual conversations – be open to all forms of guidance, and some of the most unexpected places are the places to get your guidance from. Absolutely utilize all those mentors and coaches, and share both your desires and your fears, and all those things that make you more vulnerable and that will make you stronger in the long run. There’s no one person really, except obviously my daughter and my son. I put a heavier weight on them in terms of their opinion than maybe others would, and I really do listen when they guide me.

JJ And is there a place or personal group where you go to in times of struggle or difficult times?

DG I go to my personal relationships, my deep personal relationships that people really know me because they will give me a view based on knowing me really well. And the decisions that we make in life are very much a self-reflection. So, I tend to turn to those folks first. But equally, I’m involved in quite a lot of societal networks within professional networks or more broadly, and so I’m always listening to the voices within those networks as well. Whilst I may not approach those networks directly, I’ll have good friends in those networks that will say Dax think about this today as that’s really key for you – and nine times out of 10, they’re right.

JJ And when you move from organization to organization, are there any moves that you’ve made that you feel have been key in your career?

DG I guess I decided early on that I would not be the person that would stay in one organization for my lifetime. That was part of my character, I enjoyed the variety and I wanted to make sure I had organizational depth, so I stayed with certain organizations that I really enjoyed for a long period of time. But also, through the advisory work and other non-exec work as well, it gave me a chance to bring my industry depth into a position as well. Having that broad understanding of different cultures, different perspectives, whether they’re within industry and government, or in local community, that was important to me.

So, I wouldn’t say there was one decisive path through that, but on reflection of the path that I took, there were times where I went to, for example, the not-for-profit sector and I learnt lots of things that I bring now into the commercial world, and vice versa I brought lots of commercial skills and value-based skills into the not-for-profit world. So, my path has always been around normalizing those different organizations that I work with, and I guess the beauty now is having executive and non-executive conversations as you know the NED space is very strong in terms of that advisory perspective – that creates a real balance and there’s a lot to learn about the portfolio of businesses that I’m involved. They each bring learnings to me that I can share more generically with the other organisations that I work with. It’s, in the nicest sense, a perpetual learning cycle.

JJ And as a woman in tech, have you faced any challenges and how have you overcome them? What have you done to help yourself through your career?

DG I guess stepping into tech, I didn’t ever think that I was a woman in tech, but I was reminded by society that I was a woman in tech. So, I always approached it from the point of view that it’s an area I’m really interested in. If you’re interested in an area, you get involved and you learn.

But I do experience, whether it’s in technology or more broadly in industry, unconscious bias. And that is quite natural. People unintentionally can make suggestions that are fine but equally they could be taken as not necessarily progressive thinking. So for example, a very light hearted example is in one organization that I work with, my profile was shared with the organisation but my picture wasn’t so you wouldn’t know that I was a woman or not, and I’ve got the various notes of congratulations that everybody does, but then I walk physically into a room with one of the people that had congratulated me and the first thing they said is ‘oh Dax. You’re a woman.’

It was unintended, but it’s quite interesting how these unconscious things sort of come up. I think it’s recognizing all of that in good humour, but it also makes me very conscious of making sure that I’m open minded and some of those views still hold women back. So, part of my role is to champion that and encourage other women into that space as well.

JJ You are in a sector which is moving very fast.

DG Yeah, absolutely, very fast indeed. I stay on top by doing a combination of things. I learn a lot from my colleagues and my industry network. There’s always a conversation that takes my thought process on and I try to reciprocate that in the industry when I take on speaking assignments or that sort of thing. So, you know, those conversations are invaluable. And I read a lot. I’m connected with lots of the main journals and industry thought leadership. The Forbes Technology Council is fantastic as well – a lot of the leading insights are there and my connections with Harvard Business School do give me a view into some of the latest research that’s happening as well, so I would say there’s no single source, but all those things put together are invaluable. And you know a lot of the fantastic thought process come from the teams that we all look after.

JJ And when you reflect on your career is there anything you would have done differently?

DG Ooh, I think it was Jack Welsh that said I would have done it all quicker! Whether it’s the illusion or speed or not, but I think taking more and more from your network and learning about other people’s perspectives, you can always do that more and more. And I would encourage myself and everyone I work with to really absorb those views and opinions and utilize that to synthesize where you are next and what really counts for the organization you’re working, within the communities and for society as well. So yeah, I would say that’s probably the top tip.

JJ And did the pandemic change your leadership style too?

DG It didn’t change my leadership style. It’s refocused the distribution network that style went out through. So, I’m always Dax, whether you meet me virtually or in person and we have a face-to-face conversation. What it put a lot more emphasis on is connecting virtually and the importance of rapport, relationships, people getting to know you through that virtual world. And I’ll give you some examples.

So, in one area I adopted a team during that lockdown period, it was a team based in India. And they didn’t know Dax as the person. I couldn’t go and visit that team physically, but I had to put a lot of focus on building the connectivity for them to get to know me, get to know my values and really know that they are looked after as a team respecting that we all need to create value for the organization and to be able to create that connectivity internationally and across different cultures. It made me focus on that more and more.

And I think the nice thing about working from home is that you can create that connection to yourself a lot more easily. Your family is in the background, all of those things that you wouldn’t necessarily see if you’re in a formal office. I think all of that is good. People would see the real you, in a humanized business and really have those more personable conversations there. I do believe that that’s the reason, you know anyone follows anyone or is in a group or tribe.

So, it may be focus on that a lot more intently and look at my own style in terms of how I share it virtually. And a lot of focus on well-being to be honest. In today’s connected world, it’s very easy to be involved in lots of conversations and so the importance of creating that wellbeing conversation, creating the space for my team to have that conversation and to work out what it means individually for each of us, and to be able to just connect and chat virtually. You’ve got that open channel and the team knows you’ve got their back and they support you and equally with your peers and the organisation as well. So, a lot of personal reflection and a lot of opportunity to connect in very different ways.

JJ And my final question for you is, is what advice would you give to a 21-year-old aspiring to be someone like you tomorrow?

DG Advice that was given to me was ‘always be yourself because everybody else is taken’ so my belief is the more you are yourself, the more all these things happen and the more you get to know yourself. I’m a great believer, in the nicest and most humble sense, that getting to know the relationship with yourself, and therefore how you create other relationships, is very key. And that has become more part of my own learning process as well to be fair.

JJ Dax, it’s been great to talk with you today. Thank you so much for joining us. You’re a great role model for the sector, so thank you very much for taking up that that torch and can I thank everyone else for who’s been listening to this podcast. Thank you very much indeed.